blaming again
i blame the patriarchy's "empowerful" critique continues with another brilliant ditty by twisty; this time, it mostly addresses a response she got to the last one - "post-postmodern sexuality" - from a self-professed supporter of the sportcorset. i won't dissect that response, as twisty and kyso kisaen at punkassblog aldready do a beautiful job of that. i even want to add a huge disclaimer to my support of twisty's point: like i said on a different occasion, i cannot agree that women who succumb to/embrace the "sexbot" image are the worst conformists to the patriarchy and can't be feminists. (to be honest, i don't think that twisty thinks so either; i believe she's saying this for the sake of making a larger point, and that is actually what i don't find particularly fair, or rather feminist, about it.) again, i'm of the opinion that as long as we agree on the fact that the nature of the patriarchy is that it infuses everything, so there's no total escape for any of us, it makes no sense (and it doesn't really help!) to say that certain "types" of women are, a priori, the enemies of all womankind and lovers of all things patriarchal. the way i put it before is that the patriarchy does the same thing: offering only binary value systems, placing women in rigid categories, shaming them and refusing them agency, blaming the victims for the system which victimizes them. and i'd say one has to be extra-careful of doing anything that comes even close to replicating those tactics - even if it's rhetorically satisfying to do so. that's precisely why there's so much resistance to the "sexbot"/"empowerful" critique, why women will say: "but, no, this doesn't make sense to me and if radical feminism is about being an anti-sex prude who wants all women to be one way i don't want anything to do with it." basically there's a point there where the critique of what the patriarchy dictates a woman should be and do becomes a way to put women down, also... and as such, an anti-feminist, not feminist (and let alone "radical") stance. instead, let's close in on particular behaviors and choices.
i won't go into a discussion of the "sexbot" choices women might make except to say, ok, it's true that those choices are just like any other ones when it comes to embracing or not what gets called "femininity." it's true that singling those out just because they have to do with sex makes no sense. and it's also true that no one can say they're completely "innocent" there, anyway: if you've been alive in the patriarchy, you have dressed gender-appropriately at some point at least to some extent. again, i see no difference really between dressing in sexy clothes and, say, knitting - both are patriarchy-approved expressions of "femininity." and both have about the same intrinsic lack of merit. BUT. that being said, we have to acknowledge that differences can easily come in. the main one: being a "sexbot," unlike knitting, is directly related to the fact that the patriarchy controls women mostly through trying to relegate them to being the sex class. i know that if i ever felt that a large part of my identity/femaleness revolved around knitting, that knitting was important because only women who knit attain a certain status and it's really my duty as a woman to knit, and besides if knitting involved hurting myself - stabbing myself with the needles, say - then i'd take a step back and think that maybe i wasn't doing it because i liked it but because i was being forced to... like it. (actually, i'd take a step back and scream.) and though i do not believe that dressing "like a slut," just like enjoying sex, has to negate being a feminist at all, i do think your devotion to the patriarchy may be outweighing any critical stance if you also say stuff like "the vagina is empty and it needs filling" or "even though they make me gag and i'm no good at them, i should still be giving blow jobs to the guys i'm intimate with" or "i exercise solely to look good for men and so, yes, i would wear a sportcorset"...
but that's not even my point. the author of the "post-postmodern sexuality" post is not one-dimensional at all (as she puts it, she'd like to draw a "line between edgy-ironic postmodern sexuality and dumb slut"); she talks of paradoxes and constructs of the patriarchy and different feminisms, and she offers several "non-ironic" thoughts along the way ("I think it’s both irrational and impractical to chide women who knowingly opt into certain constructs of the patriarchy unless the aim is to abolish gender altogether.") she even talks about how some people - her included - simply choose not to "fight" ("Unless a woman is to be a soldier, someone who has dedicated her life to “stepping up” against the patriarchy, then the feminist agenda requires not only sacrifice, but actual effort."). which is fine. but - exactly like her romanian counterpart here, she worries that she might not be feminist, after all (she used to think she was). and exactly like her romanian counterpart (who "has never felt really discriminated against based on her sex" and "doesn't think she knows any really misogynistic men"), when she elaborates her position after being challenged about some of her points in the comments, she finally says:
But regarding feminism, I neve felt as though it helped me understand anything about being unhappy because I never felt as though I was victim of the patriarchy. I’ve taken two graduate courses in feminist theory and maybe one or two others at the undergradate level and for me, they provided more historical reference and general awareness; what I learned didn’t seem directly applicable to my own life.
I grew up being taught that the only obstacle to my success would be my personal drive and initiative, and part of me has never given up believing that at a fundamenal level, even though I intellectually understand that we do live in a patriarchy and women are theoretically at a disadvantage.
and here. that's what it is. "theoretically," huh? i think it doesn't even matter whether you might "be" a feminist, how much you choose to embrace patriarchal constructs about gender and sex and so on... in fact, we're wasting too much time with rhetorics. much of feminism is about recognizing that those constructs exist - but it's not just that. it's also fighting sexist oppression to the best of your abilities. and that's really what twisty is saying, even if she's saying it in a "radical" way. if you, however, choose to distance yourself from sexism and oppression - because you're sure you, unlike the great majority of women out there, are somehow "above" those things, that you're the special one who's totally escaped sexism and patriarchy - you're not only truly deluding yourself but taking an actively anti-feminist position. i think that's the essential point here, under all of it; that it's not all - or even mostly - about you. and women who say that kind of thing are choosing not to be feminist, plain and simple, and i think that's worlds away from being criticised for not being feminist because one embraces some aspects of patriarchy-defined "femininity," just as it's also entirely disingenuous of them to wonder if they might be "feminist" after all. anyway, i feel that i can give such women an honest answer to the dishonest question: NOPE. really.
i'm soooo allergic to this "but i've never felt discriminated against!!" bullshit.
ps: what if the aim is to abolish "gender" altogether? gender as we know it?










7 comentarii:
rereading my previous "blaming" post and the thing about "shame shame, bad girl" from the comments... i actually have a confession to make: i recently did say to a girl "shame shame, bad girl," because on a list she's been saying stuff like "it's because of the influence of stupid cunts in society that nonconformists get discriminated against" and "if they put on some clothes and started being human, then women wouldn't be discriminated against" - and i got really mad and felt i had to say something. but i'm quite conflicted over it. how does the fact that i took her to task for being a woman and saying this stuff fit in with what i'm arguing here? on the one hand - i believe it's totally ok, because i criticized her for being misogynistic, and that's valid. on the other, i think my criticism could be interpreted as me trying to fit her into some "proper" female behavior (the "shame shame, bad girl" thing). still, for me this whole thing continues to revolve around solidarity: with anything that you're doing/saying, are you extending solidarity to other women, or withdrawing it? and with individual women, it just depends on the case. but i totally hate the idea that in general it would depend on the "category" of women one was talking about. working with "categories of women" is a manifestation of the patriarchy. and i do think saying "women who dress like sluts are putting us all to shame" is misogyny, pure and simple - and to that girl i tried to make this point by commenting somewhat ironically that if anyone is putting us all to shame it's those like her who put other women down. but maybe i didn't make this as clear as i could've, and so in effect i did exactly what i criticized her for. hm... now my head hurts.
anyway, the bottom line is this i guess: the only act that can be considered "detrimental to all women" is just exactly that - one that either actually contributes to oppressing women or otherwise expressly withdraws solidarity with other women, puts women as a group down, is misogynistic. you can't say that about people's personal choices when they're not directly affecting anyone else, though; those can be detrimental at most to them, personally. and i think this applies to the posts at ibtp and those by random bird, too.
and so... in conclusion. :D i'd argue that a "sport corset" becoming generally fashionable is definitely detrimental to all women. a particular woman dressing like a slut, no. someone calling all women sluts, all stupid sluts responsible for something - detrimental to all women. a feminist denying that a woman who dresses like a slut might have some kind of agency - detrimental to all feminists. a woman who enjoys sex and embraces certain aspects of what we know as "femininity" - can be a feminist. a woman who believes misogyny exists only "theoretically" and doesn't care about fighting it or on the other hand whose idea of actively opposing the patriarchy consists entirely of calling her submission "ironically postmodern" - not a feminist.
hm
well, my head hurts too:D [gotta get my hands on one of those english manuals, and PRONTO]. I am so not gonna get into the twisty matter, cause she's way out of my league [tho` I do hope she's saying that for the sake of making "a larger point"], but I wanted to say I [think I] recently figured out two things:
1. one of the things women are accused [by both men and women] of most often is the lack of solidarity with one another. we're seen as back-stabbing bitches.
2. I don't know that girl, but I thought just now that she might have taken that lesson we were talking about [facing the facts that "stupid cunts" seem to be more appealing to men - punks and non-punks], hence her attitude at the moment. especially if she's quite young. that stiff high school competition between girls often has that effect.
hm... i think heads may continue to hurt.
it's a very good point, that i hadn't thought about in this context; yes, the image of women as "back-stabbing bitches" is quite pervasive. but i think i'd argue that this doesn't mean that the patriarchy actually puts any value on solidarity in the sense i use it. it just means that women are expected to conform to the categories that the patriarchal imagination places them into - but that kind of "solidarity" is really the opposite of what i'm talking about; i'm not referring to solidarity as restricting oneself uncritically to a certain group that one is told one belongs to but to solidarity as recognizing the common experiences that do "unite" us - even if otherwise we may have nothing in common. and being a woman within the patriarchy is definitely one of those situations. i really don't want to say that all women should be friends with each other. (though in fact i don't think the patriarchy would like that either, "back-stabbing bitches" image or no.) first of all, i don't think we should throw around "all women" too much. but what i want to say is that we should realize how much the simple fact of our biology (whatever that means) determines how society treats us and who we get to "be" - unless we protest, oppose, subvert.
i agree with twisty who said that any move an oppressed group makes is a political move, whether we like it or not - in spite of the fact that we don't like it, actually. it's a direct consequence of the oppression. and while i don't think it's the responsibility of members of oppressed groups to be political and to speak up and fight - because that would then take the responsibility off of the shoulders where it rests in actuality: the oppressor's - i do believe that change will only come about "with demand."
and, again, i think you really cannot be feminist without extending solidarity. maybe this is just my personal convictions talking, because i know of all things in the world i place most value on solidarity. and compassion... those two things, which go hand in hand, and which i don't understand in any peace-and-flowers-in-your-hair kind of way (you can certainly be a bitch in solidarity :D). [although both peace and flowers are certainly great.] in fact, i think the idea that solidarity could only be a sign of... weakness is a clear enforcement of patriarchal values.
and yes, i can stand on my own bla bla, but that's not what this is about. this reminds me of something i quoted in an older post: "This reframing of the debate, to cripple the very power of a movement by shaking it down from masses in search of a universal right to individuals with private decisions to take, was a masterstroke by the Right, because if you pit the little guy against an institution the institution will always win. We stopped working together for reform and are now being forced to conform, dying deaths of a thousand choices. But it's not too late. In the words of Roberta Lynch, "Movements do not simply get born, flourish and die. They go forward and are beaten back. They retreat, regroup and advance again." ...We have been distracted by personal rather than political empowerment and dragged low by the constant blandishments of a culture that tells us the only path to empowerment is through shopping, plastic surgery and pandering to the so-called ironic fantasies of chortling men. Feminists, black rights campaigners, environmentalists and activists of all creeds, it's time to get angry all over again."
anyway. interestingly enough, all this relates directly to a response i got from some guy on the infamous list:
"a discrimina inseamna cu mult mai mult decat sa faci niste curve pizde. nu ma intelegeti gresit... nu am nimic impotriva curvelor... chiar le plac pentru singeritatea lor...imaginati-va ce urata ar fi lumea fara ele. pizdele imi plac mai mult decat feministele fanatice si lesbiene care nu au alte treaba decat sa te futa la cap fara sa le faci nimic.
chiar nu are rost sa faceti pa desteptii unde nu ii nevoie.
Tot stau si ma intreb daca tu si cu celalalt destept sunteti punkisti sau hipioti care viseaza la lumea perfecta unde nimeni nu are voie sa spuna nimic urat despre nimeni si unde toti se iubesc si se inteleg ca fratii; cred ca nici voi nu stiti sigur, nici nu cred ca faceti diferenta dintre punkisti si hipioti."
- and this in the context that in the same message he makes a point of extending a lot of understanding and compassion to "manelisti" for being mislabelled and hated and discriminated against (by punks and others) mainly for classist reasons (which i mostly agreed with). i think it's very telling: it seems the main concern is that one should remain a "tough guy" when it comes to feminism - not (just) because being a tough guy is essential (how else will you differentiate yourself from non-tough-guy "hippies"?) but because women, unlike any other oppressed group in existence, do not deserve compassion and understanding. (wait, i forgot, women are not even discriminated against.) i think the language is also telling, the level of hate towards those categories of women that this guy is not comfortable with. so... girls who call "sluts" "cunts" are ok, even "sluts" are ok (the world would be bleaker without them). sexually frustrated feminists, on the other hand - well, apparently nothing annoys this punk more than those!!! hehe. speaking of which, i saw "militante nefutute" used in quite a few places recently - it seems to be a very popular term. i guess it never ceases to surprise me how virulent misogyny is embraced by so many people. would they ever think of saying "militanti nefututi"?!? i don't even know where to begin with that shit.
and yeah. i agree that it's quite possible that's what the "femeile ne sufoaca" girl is about, and that's why i also feel sorry for her. (she, btw, had the same opinion about "feministe nefutute." of course.)
ps: if we want, we can have any discussions on the ladyfest list, too. in romanian. :D
pps: your english seems quite perfect, actually.
pai hai si tu, no!! :)
baga-te in discutii... si cum ziceam, am putea incepe si in romana pe blogul lf. de discutat avem ce discuta, asta e clar. posteaza tu ceva acolo si sa cream energie creatoare. :D
imi pare rau ca n-a mers cu marea. dar cred ca a fost un semn de la doamne-domane ca trebuia sa stai aici cu noi pe bloguri. "aici". :P (tu cind pleci la tm, btw?)
ps: promit sa dau la mic rant-urile si aflarea in treaba prin subiecte (adica nu stiu daca o sa pot sa ma tin de o asemenea promisiune, dar o sa-ncerc).
:) si e buna si usor rau de facut: amesteci cartofi noi (necojiti) fierti cu masline si ceapa verde, toate ciopirtite dupa plac, si peste astea pui ulei de masline, zeama de lamiie si/sau otetul preferat, sare, piper, frunze de coriandru si ardei iute dupa gust... si gata! mmmmmmmm. mi-e pofta iara.
nici mie nu-mi place sa stau, nici macar la soare, la mare desi ador sa ma coc/prajesc si iubesc marea si mai tare. dar imi place sa umblu! (si, nu stiu de ce, cind am fost acum in tara cel mai bine in ce priveste natura m-am simtit pe-un deal la sighisoara.) oricum, stii, eu in vacante numai umblu si imi planific intilniri si activitati care abia se incadreaza toate in timpul alocat. din fericire, majoritatea sint lucruri pe care doresc sa le fac - ca de-asta le si aleg - si asa ca iese misto chiar daca e stres. totusi, ce nu e misto e cind trebuie sa-ti revii dupa vacanta. eu cred ca si niste relaxare totala, macar de citeva zile, ar avea meritele ei... tie poate ti-ar trebui un munte. ce zici? sau, stai, ca am o idee geniala. cred ca-ti trebuie pitesti!! :D
Scuze ca scriu in romana. Sunt mai rapid :D
"and, again, i think you really cannot be feminist without extending solidarity. maybe this is just my personal convictions talking, because i know of all things in the world i place most value on solidarity. and compassion..."
Excelent spus! Incerc sa imi dau seama daca femeile sunt mai putin solidare. Desi am glumit si am facut aluzie la lipsa de solidaritate spunand p-aici pe undeva de o tipa: "Concurenta!" (in sensul ca frica de concurenta o frustreaza), in general n-am observat ca fetele sa se injungie pe la spate mai mult decat barbatii. Dar, din pct. meu de vedere, observatia personala nu e foarte relevanta, pentru ca e foarte limitata. Trebuie un studiu pe tema asta :D Sigur americanii au facut unul pentru ca asa fac ei, studii pt orice :)) Poate ca femeile nu sunt asa solidare pentru ca in mod traditional femeia e 'atasata' barbatului, care are el relatii de prietenie cu diversi, dar femeia trebuie sa fie casnica sau cel mult sa aiba o prietena de barfa, dar nimic prea serios. Barbatii se intalnesc la carciuma sa discute treburi importante, sa decida cine castiga alegerile, meciul sau mai stiu eu ce super-important. Femeia sa stea acasa sa spele, sa aiba grija de copii. Ce ii trebuie ei relatii sociale?! Nu-i ajunge barbatul? Ati vazut ca daca un barbat isi inseala nevasta, ea mai degraba ar omori-o pe amanta, nu pe el? Amanta e vinovata, el mai putin sau deloc chiar! Eu nu pot sa inteleg o astfel de atitudine... Daca te inseala sotul/sotia vina nu poate sa fie decat a celor 2, in proportii diferite - de la caz, la caz. M'an! Prea greu pt mine sa analizez chestii d-astea, psihologice! Va las pe voi sa ganditi eu citesc concluziile :))
PS: Eu nu stiu pe ce lista esti tu, dar vad ca sunt foarte nesimtiti. Cam rar imi e sa aud asa vorbe.
PPS: Ruxi, cred ca poti sa scrii deja o carte despre feminism la cate posturi ai :D Cel putin cateva "papers" ai p-aici :)
PPPS: suna bine reteta, dar fara ceapa!
i'll start from the end (and switch to english)
i don't use onion that much in general, but this is one of those recipes where it makes a difference. without onions, the salad is ... all right. with onions, it's AWESOME!
speaking of "conclusions" - one thing i wanted to say, actually, is that i don't think there are or can be final conclusions or generalizations to be made... for me, the important part is the talking about these things, and that's exactly what i value feminism for, on a personal level: it gives me the space and framework to question norms and "givens" as far as sex and gender are concerned, to constantly challenge old opinions - including my own - so that i take into consideration more and more points of view... for me feminism is about questioning as much as possible the fact that we're expected to be slaves to our biology and that a value scale is applied to the roles assigned to us according to biology - so basically to question patriarchal rules and structures. and i know by now that, for myself, i want nothing to do with a lot of what society tells me my gender should entail - with "femininity"... i suffer enough (literally) for the "privilege" of giving birth if the desire to give birth were to all of a sudden strike me; and i don't feel like conforming to any further "consequence" of my biology. so i like the idea of personal choice, and i think that i can choose what i do and what i don't to a certain extent. this is where the complexity comes in, though: most people don't have that much of a choice in accepting their gender roles or not - because we're talking about a system, not individual choices, really. so that's why there needs to be solidarity: we're all 1. different and 2. in this together, basically. and besides, since the value scale is part of the system, i think it needs to be bypassed completely - at the very least not supported. (revolting against "femininity" just because it's "femininity" and therefore bad means agreeing with the patriarchy.) we need other value scales for this stuff - to even think differently about the whole concept of "value." and i think here we have a problem, because it's hard to find other value scales when our world is structured around this one. for me, the "solution" of just trying to maximize compassion feels good and seems quite logical (i don't care at all that the patriarchy calls compassion a weak and/or feminine trait). to me, compassion makes sense - it's what i want for myself.
so that would be it. this whole "choice" thing is funny, because it exposes all of the above: what is the patriarchal value scale, what does it mean to agree with it or not, and can anyone have enough agency to step outside of it, even a little? and i think that yes, you have to negociate this and create enough agency - otherwise we would all just be completely incapacited - but at the same time we need to make sure that we are aware where the limitations are in this agency. so criticism is ok. as far as "dressing slutty" i think that a woman can TOTALLY dress "slutty" and be feminist (because "slutty" is actually meaningless anyway), but at the same time i think that the criticism of the "sport corset" is more than valid. i don't even want to debate this, in fact: corsets were bad for women back in the day and the fact that some woman would choose to wear them and even find them "empowering" doesn't make them any less bad.
so:
- it is not all about choice, and anyone who criticizes your choice is not automatically anti-you.
- and it is not all about rejecting "femininity," and anyone who adopts some aspect of "femininity" is not automatically non-feminist.
anyway. how does this apply to what you're saying, marius, about "competition" among women, and then the issue that when men cheat on them, women tend to blame the other woman rather than the guy himself? well, first of all i must say about this whole "women are backstabbing bitches" thing - i don't think that's actually true. as i said, i think it's a product of the patriarchal imagination and it would sit well with the patriarchy if women were like that because then we would be busy undermining each other instead of thinking about the ways in which gender roles restrict and limit our lives. that's exactly what i'm saying (with the solidarity). but in general i personally haven't found it to be the case, and it always surprises me to no end when i hear someone making a comment along those lines. however, i think you're right, marius, the cheating man situation is a perfect example in which women do tend to choose "anti-solidarity" with each other - and it's totally messed up. but there are lots of factors that go into that, the double standard that women can either be "good" or "whores" while men are expected to be sexually promiscuous as a sign of their virility and a mark of their worth as men, the fact that "good" women need to be both subservient and understanding towards their men, the thing that you mention about women being relegated to the domestic sphere while men can go out in the world and "conquer" - that's their job! - but good women shouldn't be there, so if anyone is to blame, it's the women who are there, etc.. and i think that both women and men are expected to "compete" with each other in order to establish themselves as "masculine" or "feminine" - but in different ways; women should be "ladylike" at all times, as we know, :) and so the methods of competition that they have access to are restricted to underhandedness - so "backstabbing" comes in... etc. etc. ...
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